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New feature: best price
I've been working on a new feature which allows you to easily track the best used price of books. The first part of that feature is now up. When you add a book to your wishlist, a price search happens automatically. To see it in action, add this book  Khaled Hosseini : A Thousand Splendid Suns to your wishlist. The price is refreshed only once per day, so it doesn't slow your use of the site down. Note: Amazon is currently limiting us to 2000 price lookups per hour, which we are going over at times, so you might not see "best prices" for now, until I (hopefully) get Amazon to up our limit BookMooch displays three different prices: - the best used price from anyone on Amazon
- the best new price from anyone on Amazon
- the price Amazon is charging for a new copy
Over the next few weeks, I'll be releasing more ways in which this price-tracking can be used.Note that this already currently works with all the Amazon regional stores (France, Germany, Japan, Canada, UK) As a basic example, if you look at the "most wishlisted" books and add them to your own wishlist, you'll see that many of them are available (in the USA) for less than $2.20, with postage costs included. Given that Media Mail postage rates start at $2.38, it actually makes more financial sense to simply buy the book used from Amazon, than to pay to post your own book to another moocher. I realize that there can be many reasons for wanting to send your books to others, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being informed, in knowing that this particular book would actually cost you more in mooching-out postage, then simply buying it from an Amazon merchant. Many, many books are (you will find out) much more expensive on Amazon than if you mooch them. For example, this Mexican Cookbook I want costs $11.75 on Amazon. I'll wait to see if can mooch it, thank you. I've only just started incorporating this "best price" feature into BookMooch. Some other places I think it'd be useful: - on your wishlist itself, so you can see if you should "just give up" waiting for a book you want to read, and just buy it, because it's available inexpensively. This could be another view, or an option in the wishlist settings.
- on the book details page, so you can decide to buy the book instead of wishlisting it in the first place
- possibly... after you add a book to your inventory, so that you can decide: "this book of mine sells for $60 on Amazon, I should probably sell it to my local used book store". This is perhaps a bit contentious, but I think overall it would help BookMooch, because a very common criticism I hear about listing books is "how do I know my books aren't valuable, and I'm mistakenly giving gems away that I should instead sell?". Well, BM could tell you, and if all your books are selling cheaply on Amazon, you might as well mooch them out instead. I think this would be off by default, but could be enabled as an option. Update: based on feedback below I will not be adding this feature.
- historical tracking: after this price-tracking feature has been out for a while, I will be able to graph the historical price for a book, helping you decide whether the current price is a good deal or not.
- email notifications: you could be emailed when a book on your wishlist is available under a threshold price. Perhaps when it can be bought for less than $2.50? Or perhaps you have wishlisted books that are normally really expensive, and if they are available for less than $20 you'd simply by them?
- a "likelihood" feature: would you find it useful if your wishlist told you that you would be "likely" or "unlikely" to mooch this book in the next 3 months? This could be a simple automated analysis based on the number of people who want the book and the historical number of copies that have appeared in BM.
- How about the opposite statistic: the likelihood anyone will mooch this book from you? Do we really need any more copies of Dan Brown : The Da Vinci Code being listed on BookMooch?
- for people who hate this feature, I'll be added a setting in your "preferences" to turn it completely off. No prices will be displayed.
- other ideas?
My general reasons for doing this feature are:- Many people use BM to save money: this should help them do that
- My wishlist contains books I actually want to read. If they never appear on BM but I can get them cheaply, I'm happy buying them. In fact, for many of them, I'm happy buying them new if it's obviously hopeless expecting I'll be able to mooch them someday.
- People hesitant to list books to give away might be more inclined if they were told the real value of most of their books
- And of course, Amazon pays BM 8% on book sales, so this is a way to raise funds while providing a helpful feature.
I put this feature up before it's complete, in order to get a discussion going, and I'd love to know what you think!-john
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John Buckman
13 years ago
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Amazon Market Place in UK charges 2.75 pounds to post, a book would have to be quite heavy to exceed that in postage. Also, if you're about to list a desirable book and discover it's going to sell for, say 6 pounds (or dollars), then you'll be tempted not to list it.
My gut feeling is that this will result in a poorer quality of books on BM.
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I like the idea especially in connection with the books on my wishlist. I would like to know cost of purchase compared to waiting for a member to list it. Would also be happy to know the chances of getting a book on my wishlist. Especially since I have gotten very few that way. By all means, add this feature. GRatefully, Virginia
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I could see it as an opt-in feature for wishlists, But do not like it showing when offering books for trade. It was shown by going to the amazon link before, which provided enough distance so that people would not have to worry about it. I think any change should be to get people to list more wishlisted books, but this will mean people would not list as many.
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I'm in agreement with Carol: this is a good idea but I would limit it only to wishlist. I would also like to ask: can't you compare to some other online shops as well as Amazon? And for the Italians (or at least non-American) there will be some solution?
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Is this going to link to more than amazon.com? Importing books from the other side of the pond doesn't make sense to me in mainland Europe. Whenever I buy from Amazon, I have to compare the difference in buying from the UK and paying postage to France or paying import price and less postage from Amazon France. The difference can be considerable. Buying a book from Amazon US isn't an option unless I'm desperate and can only find it in the US. Any price comparisons that give me only the US price will be unfortunately meaningless. Comparing all the different Amazon prices sounds like a database nightmare.
Buying secondhand books from resellers who list used books on Amazon UK is often almost as expensive as buying new import rate from Amazon France.
A great idea, but I'm not sure it's going to be of help outside the US.
Once some people see what their rather rare books are worth, they may even decide to list them on Amazon rather than offering them on BM. Then were does that leave us - more copies of last year's best sellers and no chance of tracking down that elusive book?
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What a great idea! I look forward to this. Thank you!
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| | However, I don't see how postage is included in the cost of the book as you state. Everywhere I look on Amazon may show cheaper prices for used books but always shows that shipping is extra--at $3.99--far surpassing the postage for a mooched book. |
When you click on "used" to get a list of used prices at Amazon, you can resort the list Amazon gives you, to be item+postage, and then you'll see the true cost. Yes, many vendors are shipping for $3.99, but it looks like some number are shipping at $2.10. Unfortunately, Amazon doesn't make a item+postage price available to me (the programmer) so I can only show the book price, and you need to click to see the postage price range. -john
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I agree with wiccio and Carol. I prefer this as wishlist only, not when adding to inventory.
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| | I would also like to ask: can't you compare to some other online shops as well as Amazon? |
Unfortunately, no, as Amazon changed their database usage legalese a year ago, so that you have to be exclusive and never suggest any other buying source. In order to BM to suggest other sources besides Amazon, we'd have to do completely without their book data. I'm not willing to do that. | | And for the Italians (or at least non-American) there will be some solution? |
Perhaps -- I *may* be able to link to prices from ABE Books, since Amazon owns them, and they are worldwide.
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| | Is this going to link to more than amazon.com? Importing books from the other side of the pond doesn't make sense to me in mainland Europe. Whenever I buy from Amazon, I have to compare the difference in buying from the UK and paying postage to France or paying import price and less postage from Amazon France. The difference can be considerable. Buying a book from Amazon US isn't an option |
I have already made it automatically work with amazon.fr, amazon.co.uk, amazon.de, amazon.co, amazon.jp. I actually tested this using some books on your wishlist (grin). -john
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Honestly, I don't have a strong opinion on this feature either way; I am a frequent Amazon seller and already regularly check the value of my books there. What I wanted to add is that I would LOVE a "likelihood" feature. I am always trying to guess if I should shell out for a copy of something or wondering if it will be available in a week or two here.
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I think this is a great idea. I'm not likely to purchase from Amazon, unless it's a really great deal and I desperately want it, but I think it's a nice feature. I like to know things without having to do too much research. :) Also, to those worried about people listing on Amazon rather than posting on BM, I think there are probably some people (myself included) who already sell on Amazon or ebay - or wherever - who still swap books. It's a little obvious when you consider some types of books that rarely show up here, like manga. As I stated above, I've sold plenty of things online and I can tell you I've never found selling books to be a lucrative enterprise. It's work and I find that I'm just too lazy to want to post most books for such a low profit. And I just really like the feeling I get trading books with others. I'm sure I'm not the only sometime seller of books who feels this way.
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Many Amazon prices really are pretty off-kilter, especially on items rare enough not to see much vendor competition but that for assorted reasons probably *no one* is going to buy at those kind of prices. Like nondescript older edition of texts readily available new for half the amount they're asking or even less. Some hopeful vendor is trying to peddle one of the books I'm currently offering for nearly 70$... hmm, lol, hope sure springs eternal...
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One of my big reasons for using Bookmooch is to get titles which are hard to come by in the U.S., like Dr. Who & Arthur Upfield titles. These items aren't generally available on Amazon.com. Also, resellers on Amazon often use aut0=price routines & may not have the book "available" at that cheap advertised price.
Bookmooch is one of my favorite sites! I just wish international postage were cheaper, so that I could send more books to foreign readers.
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I particularly don`t like the idea, I think it ceases to be a web disinterested exchange, in which money does not appear to be part of something commercial. I think that changes the meaning of Bookmooch project.
Don`t see it useful, all we look at the various book stores price, and whether we want to buy or not.
As for the probability of finding a book in Bookmooch, it's hard hitting, there are many variables when it comes to statistics, and every day there are new people with new contributions, which can not be predicted. And do we know that books are going to want these new people.
As for the book "The DaVinci Code", I recently ordered a copy from BookMooch. So I say it all depends.
Another very important, especially for people outside USA is, when to order a book, I can think moocching not compensate, and that I can buy, but perhaps the person who has the book compensate pay shipping and get the points, to order books to others moochers,books which can be very difficult to achieve in your country. All regardless of the value they can get the books. I think the value is very subjective, each gives you want.
I think the value is very subjective, each gives you want. I think this site will not have to encourage trade with the books, saying if you have more or less value, or if there are too many copies of a book and no more are needed. The idea here is much simpler, or at least it was until now, all books were as important or valuable, a book in exchange for a book. Is voluminous, with many or few pages, old or new...
People will start thinking if your books have lower or higher value obtained if the mine is better than yours ... start the competition.Honestly, I think it does not do any good to a page as unique as Bookmooch.
Greetings from Spain
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I do not like this idea AT ALL!!! ... Defeats the purpose of the word "Mooching" ... so please do not go through with this ... If people wants to make profits with their books (Which by the way, 80% of the time the books are not in good condition so why pay for something other people get from someone's trash) they might as well go through Amazon or other paying sites directly and sell their books there ... I think this is highly inappropriate in this site ... the whole concept of this is to share the "Used" books with other book readers ... So, please reconsider ...
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For people who aren't aware of how Amazon.com works -- it is possible to find books for $2.20 *including postage,* if a seller chooses to ship with "Fulfillment by Amazon." That service means the book will ship for free when you buy $25 or more of stuff on the site. Second, I have sold things on Amazon.com, and just so you're aware, merchants do not actually make any money on books they sell for a penny. In fact, in many cases, they are LOSING money. Yes, the website charges $3.99 for postage -- but Amazon.com takes $1.20 of that as a listing fee, plus another $0.99 unless you have a Pro Merchant subscription (which costs $40 per month). That means that, unless you are a Pro Merchant, if you sell a book for a penny that is cheapest to send Media Mail, the math works out to: $3.99-$2.38- $1.20-$0.99 = -$0.58 Only a Pro Merchant could conceivably make a profit ($0.41) from this transaction, and they *do* have to pay that $40 per month for the privilege of being a Pro Merchant. Plus, don't forget that if you sell things on Amazon.com for more than a penny, they also take 15% of the item cost as their commission. If a book would sell for $6 on Amazon.com, it *might* be worth it to sell there -- but I personally find one mooch point (even if I used it for a book I'd otherwise have to pay $4.00 for, if I bought it for a penny on Amazon.com) is worth far more to me. So while being told their books are worth some money might encourage some people to look into selling instead, realistically, they're likely to find seller fees are surprisingly high (they're worse on Ebay), make BookMooch a much more valuable option anyway. And that's without even factoring in the "I like sharing books with people" factor!
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I'd personally be all right with you doing something like that, Stephanie -- just SAY in the condition notes that you don't currently have the book and will be ordering it from an Amazon.com seller to send to the moocher. I'd also recommend copying and pasting that seller's condition notes. Then if a potential moocher would be uncomfortable with this arrangement, they can just forgo mooching it from you and give someone else (who wouldn't mind) the privilege. Is there anything in the BookMooch rules that would make this a bad idea for people like Stephanie who need more points or want to get more "highly wishlisted" books available on the site, John?
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This would tend to dry up the copies of rare books from BookMooch but increase the supply of already common books. It's hard to imagine that's where you want BookMooch to go. I remember finding a copy of The Cruel Sea here with such pleasure. And where next? Points proportional to Amazon price? I can imagine people asking for that once you add pricing info. But the wider point is this: this just makes BookMooch seem more mercantile, in fact, mercenary. If you just keep it on the wishlist, it's a small, unobtrusive feature that makes sense. If you put it in other places, it actually changes the flavour of the whole site.
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I do tend to agree that it's a great idea for a feature on the wishlist, but would probably be obtrusive when adding books to inventory. After all, if someone's adding a book to their inventory, they've presumably already decided they're willing to let somebody mooch it, and a feature that might make them back out at the last minute seems like a poor idea to me. On the wishlist, though, great! (As a side-note, if you really think it would be good to have when adding books to inventory, I'd say keep the wishlist prices "on unless turned off" and the adding books to inventory prices "off unless turned on." Far more people are likely to find the wishlist-version useful and the add-to-inventory-version annoying, I'd think.) Oh, and yes, please always keep the "one book is worth one point, period" thing! Extra points for sending international is awesome, thanks to extra postage that needs paying, but it should definitely never turn into a full-capitolist "supply and demand determine prices" sort of thing.
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I hate this - again international membership is discounted I feel. The reason why I joined BookMooch is because Amazon shipping is ridiculously priced for buying from my country and I could swap books for more reasonable prices. Otherwise I would just buy from Amazon!!! The community side of things became an added bonus.
I also do not like the commercialism inherent in this process - and I do not want to be linked, any more than I am forced to, with Amazon - I hate we have to use their book sources as it is and was very pleased to see that was being looked at.
Can we make it an opt-in, rather than staring me in the face? I was prepared to donate to this site regularly to keep it "ad-free" - this seems to me to degrade the site and will ultimately ensure Amazon makes more money and has even more draconian power by encouraging members to sell their books on Amazon rather than swap them here.
If you can't tell with this reply; I find this abhorrent!add: I see you have allowed an option to turn it off, which I didn't notice before - making it somewhat better; but on the whole the philosophy of BookMooch does not seem a good fit with this scheme. I agree with the others of 1 book = 1 point regardless; and my unwanted books find good homes. The latter is bliss. :)
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1 book = 1 point
bonus points given for international shipping due to extra cost.all books equal: hardcover, paperback, audio, bonus material, large print, textbooks, coffee table art books, children's books, baby board books, old books, new books! 1 book = 1 point I post my books because I know that they are going to another booklover!
I love that my books travel around the world!
I love being able to get books for friends & for projects in my area. I look for books that I cannot get in my small town. The library is great, but it is limited by the size of the town. (and yes, I've gotten books for the library, too!) I like that the only limits to BookMooch are how many books you can mail & how many books you can read! Very equalizing! Very fair. When I mooch a book from another BMer, my comment says "Thank you for offering to share your book!" I'm glad that I found BookMooch & that I have this opportunity to get & give books. K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple, Sweetie!!
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I'm in this for the fun of trading books with other booklovers around the world, and for the excitement in finding something I haven't easily found elsewhere (such as foreign language books). I don't find the addition of Amazon prices appealing at all.
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John, the usefulness appears to be the potential income to the site. You actually talk about the income derived from Amazon when a purchase is made. I don't want to buy Amazon books. I want to trade with other booklovers for the cost of postage. In order for this to be reasonable for me, I must complete a wishlist, otherwise it is all cost to me, and no mutual benefit. I don't want to remind people they can attempt to sell the book I want. This upgrade is not really for users at all. I would prefer no interaction with Amazon if I had a choice. Money is money, and you need income to run this, and it's your call. It is not in the spirit of trading that we are accustomed to. Simply make a bigger font on the member home page that you benefit monetarily from Amazon purchases, and leave it at that. Books on my wish list have been there for a year without a listing. I have sent many more than I have received. Let people list books without muddying the water with implied encouragement to buy from Amazon at a misleading $2.20, Your international members definately see no benefit.
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I agree with Maggie... this new system will make it much more likely that people will remove or try to get 'extra' points for books that are 'worth' more. This turns it into a commercial venture rather than book trading. Isn't that pretty much the opposite of what you are trying to do here? I also agree that it is nationalistic, people without amazon or with higher amazon shipping rates will be at a disadvantage. This strikes me as something which has the possibility of causing a lot more strife for very little benefit. Really, if someone wants the book enough to buy it, I am sure they have heard of Amazon as well. If including amazon means you cannot include any other sites, then why not include all other sites but amazon? PLEASE DO NOT KEEP this feature.. it is just going to cause a lot if infighting when people try to 'get more' for their books.
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I agree with Maggie...and Bcteagirl, VickieLB, Amy Sisson, marmalade...anything likely to reduce the number of books posted to bookmooch inventories is not good; and this looks like it will be an additional disadvantage for international moochers.
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| | I have actually done some trade-offs like this already. A few times when I was desperate for BookMooch points, I've gone to the "Most Wishlisted" list, searched it for books that were selling for cheap on Amazon, preferably .01 + 3.99 shipping, bought one of them, then put it in my inventory. So the cost to me for the BookMooch point was 4.00 + the shipping I had to pay to send it out. |
| | I'd personally be all right with you doing something like that, Stephanie -- just SAY in the condition notes that you don't currently have the book and will be ordering it from an Amazon.com seller to send to the moocher. I'd also recommend copying and pasting that seller's condition notes. Then if a potential moocher would be uncomfortable with this arrangement, they can just forgo mooching it from you and give someone else (who wouldn't mind) the privilege. Is there anything in the BookMooch rules that would make this a bad idea for people like Stephanie who need more points or want to get more "highly wishlisted" books available on the site, John? |
I don't personally have any problem with this practice -- as long as the book actually gets sent and the receiver is happy. If the person using amazon as a supplement to their inventory has positive feedback and their moochers are happy, then there's no problem. I also agree with the "put it in the condition notes" comment, as the practice of transparency tends to placate worries. A related practice I'd like to encourage is for a small used bookshop to list for mooching books that they are also selling in their shop, but that are unlikely to sell. There are a few small bookshops that do this already with BookMooch, and it's very similar. In general, as long as people are up-front and operate transparently, and both parties (moocher and giver) are happy, then I'm ok with it. The one exception I don't want to allow is cash being exchanged between parties, but short of that... -john
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| | For people who aren't aware of how Amazon.com works -- it is possible to find books for $2.20 *including postage,* if a seller chooses to ship with "Fulfillment by Amazon." That service means the book will ship for free when you buy $25 or more of stuff on the site. Second, I have sold things on Amazon.com, and just so you're aware, merchants do not actually make any money on books they sell for a penny. In fact, in many cases, they are LOSING money. Yes, the website charges $3.99 for postage -- but Amazon.com takes $1.20 of that as a listing fee, plus another $0.99 unless you have a Pro Merchant subscription (which costs $40 per month). That means that, unless you are a Pro Merchant, if you sell a book for a penny that is cheapest to send Media Mail, the math works out to: $3.99-$2.38- $1.20-$0.99 = -$0.58 Only a Pro Merchant could conceivably make a profit ($0.41) from this transaction, and they *do* have to pay that $40 per month for the privilege of being a Pro Merchant. |
This is a _really_ good point. I think I'll put this in the documentation, so that people who are thinking of selling their books on Amazon instead of giving them, understand what would be involved in order for them to sell it, and what cash value they'd actually receive. Thanks! -john
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From all the feedback, I've decided to have the "best price" feature only part of the wishlist, and not part of inventory at all. It'll be an alternative way to get books you want, but won't be a way to see the Amazon selling value of books you're giving away. I think the way I'll implement this is an option in your wishlist: "show prices". If you show prices, then they show up when you add a book to your wishlist, on your wishlist, and on book details pages. If you hide prices (again, from your wishlist setting) then the site continues to function as it does today (ie, no prices anywhere) -john
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| | As a basic example, if you look at the "most wishlisted" books and add them to your own wishlist, you'll see that many of them are available (in the USA) for less than $2.20, with postage costs included. Given that Media Mail postage rates start at $2.38, it actually makes more financial sense to simply buy the book used from Amazon, than to pay to post your own book to another moocher. |
Hi John, Are you suggesting here that if people find themselves in such a position they should buy the book and have it deliver to the moocher direct rather than post their own copy off? Drop shipping, in essence? If that's the case does that men people can list books they do not actually own, but are being sold cheaply enough they would be willing to just purchase the book should someone mooch it? I think that raises a few questions about the validity of peoples inventories, and the points they earn by listing books. Also it makes condition notes impossible to enter accurately since the 'owner' has no idea as to the actual condition of the book that will get sent. Rob
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I sold on Ebay and Amazon before ever joining Bookmooch, but we have given away over one and a half thousand books here, and it is a much nicer experience than selling on Amazon!
We don't mooch nearly as much as we post, but get a real buzz from sending books to people who really appreciate them, including ones that belonged to grandparents and even great grandparents.
We travel 20 miles to our usual post office and with Amazon's slice out of our price and postage allowance it is simply not economical for us to do so for a book that will realise less than 10 to 12 UKP (£). We have to post within 2 days of purchase, so that often means dropping everything to dash to the PO.
Nearly all the feedback we get on Amazon is from Bookmoochers, so we hold on to proof of posting slips for a year for all the other transactions. Amazon could learn a few things from Bookmooch about making it easy to leave feedback! This feature does nothing for me, I often go to look on Amazon for something that doesn't appear on BM anyway, but to my mind quality of service is a more important factor than adding to the profits of people whose bookstocks come from house clearances as is often the case with cheap copies, or as someone mentioned, a decoy before offering a copy at a realistic price. Gill
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If someone decides to list a bunch of books listed on Amazon, they will still get the same tenth of a point that people get who actually own the book in their inventory. Will BookMooch set up a system that removes the Amazon book from someone's inventory when the merchant sends it to someone else, or will the moocher have to constantly check on that book to make sure it's still available? What safeguards are there to stop someone from simply listing a bunch of theoretical books now that we no longer have to have them available for mailing anymore? This is a big change to BookMooch culture. The pricing of books right on our wishlist is also a huge shift in the culture of BookMooch and I'm surprised that this was presented as a "done deal" rather than letting us think about whether we wanted this first. You are certainly free to do as you want with the site, but now it's a purely commercial adjunct to Amazon, rather than a community-based site, where every book was valued equally. I can see this hurting international moochers. They already get the "why should I send you this book when I can buy it for less than it costs to mail it" often enough; when the book's advertised as costing a less than a dollar, many will not pause to realize that the book is expensive in that other country, if it's available at all. If I want a book and I haven't been able to get it on BookMooch, I am clever enough to find it elsewhere. This is a paid advertisement for Amazon and I would much rather continue to send BookMooch an annual check than belong to the Amazon Book Swap Site. Please don't do this!
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No, thanks - I don't need this and I agree that it is more "commercial" than need be. I just listed a bunch of books that have already been requested and will be mailed out shortly -- books I could have taken to my USB but that I listed here to help others find books not available to them locally. If I am interested in what the cost would be on Amazon there is already the "Amazon" button - and I do check at times.
I would be more interested in "date last traded" or "expected time" to give me more of an idea as to whether to go to Amazon or other source rather than wait for a wishlisted book.
And that crazy idea of posting a book you don't have then buying it from Amazon and having it shipped by Amazon to the moocher -- way crazy. Why wouldn't the moocher just buy from Amazon themselves and bypass BM completely ?? You see how quickly someone came up with a way to cheat the system.
No, please go back to the way it was.
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Well, that way the moocher would have to spend real money rather than use the BM points they have accrued.
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Plus they would need a credit card and/or an Amazon giftcard... let alone it's not a good option for international members.
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What a disappointing development. With Amazon data so blatantly displayed, BM is no longer going to be a haven from the commercial aspects of publishing and a place to play in the company of other book lovers. BookMooch has been a fun place to find unusual titles and maybe, just maybe, a desired book which would cost a fortune to buy elsewhere. I think this will encourage people to think more commercially about their holdings and find alternative places to list (and sell) their less common books. Certainly their right, but not the reason BM exists and we all use it, is it? If we're now going to have Amazon prices for everything, with the real reason being to help people find books at the lowest price, let's add in ebooks, local bookstores and library holdings, and other trading sites. It definitely feels like the real reason is this one: And of course, Amazon pays BM 8% on book sales, so this is a way to raise funds while providing a helpful feature. If so, geez, just come out and say you need money. Or will this mean all the "give a little" folks can save their money now because BM will be just another offshoot of Amazon? It was probably a naive thought, that BM wasn't commercial, but it's been a nice fantasy.
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I'm not going to write a book here, I think others have said what I feel well. I really hope all amazon pricing on BM goes away.
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I can totally understand how BookMooch could need more than donations in order to sustain itself, and how this "best price" feature might help to fill that gap. However, I can't imagine that this feature would be very useful for BM users, at least in its current form. As it's already been pointed out, if anyone wanted to know what Amazon was charging for a particular book, they could simply check themselves; besides, it's only maybe 1% of the time, if that, that a book on my wishlist calls out to me so urgently that I can't wait for it to become available for mooching. That said, I do like the idea of being able to compare prices for books, even if I'm only comparing the prices on Abe Books to that of Amazon. In that case, I would find the feature useful. My biggest concern about this feature (besides its utility) is the fear that by implementing it we will have crossed the rubicon and we'll be unable to revert to the good ole days when BookMooch didn't rely so much on Amazon for generating its funding. I only see BM becoming more dependent on Amazon for its survival. I'd sooner donate than see this feature implemented, even with the option to turn it off in my preferences. Complaints aside, I'm a big fan of the site and I'll keep using it regardless.
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Hello, this is an interesting feature, but as others have said, it has limited use if it's only amazon. But LibraryThing found a way around this dilemma, perhaps BookMooch will too :) It would also be good if postage could be included -- as jacquie mentioned, for people in Europe who compare multiple amazon sites, postage is often what makes one copy more expensive than another. also... I can't figure out how to make it show amazon.fr, I'm only getting results from amazon.com. is there some setting I'm missing or is this not implemented yet? thanks,
hibou
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I can't see much use for this feature personally. I already know that Amazon Marketplace charges £2.75 in the UK for postage, so even books listed for £0.01 (which many are) would cost £2.76, which is much more than the average cost of posting a paperback in the UK. So I know that for mooches within my own country, Bookmooch is much the cheaper (as well as friendlier) option, and I would only go to Amazon or other sources if I was desperate to acquire the book in a hurry.
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John says
If you hide prices (again, from your wishlist setting) then the site continues to function as it does today (ie, no prices anywhere)Well, not really. If other people are using the site in a different way, it has to affect everyone else in it.
I, too, am very disappointed in this turn of events. Maybe I should cash in my points and go away while there are still good books to be had.
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I would appreciate seeing prices from ABE Books, if you can swing that. (Amazon's policy is nastily restrictive, but they have you over a barrel with their awesome database.) ABE is what I check when deciding whether to send a book internationally. If the book is available in or near the moocher's country for less than it would cost me to send, I decline. But I'll happily pay a good deal more to send a book to someone who has no other way of getting it.
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I fear this will do BookMooch no good... Or at least: this will do BookMoochers outside the US no good.
Although I try to mooch books from European owners as much as I can, many books are simply more readily available from American members. But when they are always 'confronted' with the price that can GET by selling through amazon, less of them will be willing to send to Europe (or other continents) I'm also concerned that in no time, only really cheap books (Harlequin and the likes) will be found on BM.
I'll give this the benefit of the doubt, but I feel a bit deceived...
I'm a BookMooch-member for three months now, I have sent a rather huge pile of books, almost all of them internationally, I still have 100+ points... that will probably turn out to be useless because I won't be able to find books that are really interesting to me.
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I just added a book on my wishlist and it shows me the prices for Amazon Canada, even though I am in the US. I wonder why?
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Sonia, someone must have added it from Amazon Canada.
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This site, at least for me, is about book trading (book for book) not book values(selling). If I want to buy a particular book I would/can go to Amazon or a bookstore. Sadly, I feel it will reduce the variety and quality of books available and change Bookmooch in many different ways. Part of the fun is the hut for that prized/desired book which may or may not be valuable. Displaying values will also have unintended affects and may lead to good or bad changes. One might be, people wanting to be able to demand different point values for books they offer based on displayed (accurate or not) prices. Nice idea, but I'd like to see this feature go away.
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I personally like this idea and don't understand how people aren't liking it. You don't have to look at it and make it the decider if you'll mooch or not, just ignore it. Unless this is feature can be toggled for those who'd rather not use this function. One question though, how do I make it show dollar values?? It's showing Euro/Lira on some of my pages. Or is this on European books???
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I think the price feature is excellent but not for me - but I see that you have already anticipated this reaction.(another reason I love this site)
I'm mainly on bookmooch to clear space on my shelves without (horror of horrors) actually throwing books away.Likelihood is very useful - presently if I think my book is overly popular I check how many are already listed before I add it to my inventory.
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Most people have said most of what I think. I am ALWAYS in favor of more options that favor ANY users. I think this is a good idea. A big hug to John for doing this and thinking it through. And it might stop my from hauling books off to the local friends of the library who just store them from one sale to the next forever. Not very frequent sales. I have been looking at my inventory with great grumpiness since no one seems to want what I have. This will give me more options and I like it. Am I the only one here who uses Fetchbook.com for passionately desired books? I have found many, many yearned for books through them. Try it out. Full disclosure: I have stacks and stacks of books cluttering my apartment, one bedroom, eleven bookshelves PLUS books on the floor. This option will mean that I add things to my inventory even though I have many points to burn. Nice books from my friends on the floor. Something to look forward to, perhaps. Because I have so many books that no one here wants I have been listing books first on Paperbackswap.com. They more frequently have books that I want. Under the new regime, I will be listing more books on Bookmooch. There are more than a hundred books not yet in my inventory on my floor. I have been beginning to feel like a hoarder. I have disclosed more fully in this comment than ever before. In this set of comments I have learned more about Amazon which I DO use regularly, than I was aware there was to know. Thank you, everybody! Thank you John, especially! I hope you find some dearly desired book on Fetchbook. Read it with joy! With this new arrangement, I will be around much more often. Foreign readers, I sometimes send internationally because I believe in books and booklovers. I consider it my personal act of charity, once in a while, when I have money ahead. Which I don't always. I have had fascinating exchanges with folks, who love books, in foreign countries and I treasure those experiences. I sometimes get books to send to my great nephew who LOVES to get books in the mail. At one point, he got a book from the Philipines which delighted both him and his parents, my niece and nephew-in-law.
My great nephew is ten and lives in Missouri. Before mooching for him occurred to me, I had forgotten that kids very seldom get good mail. He dashes home from school to check the mailbox and brags on his schoolbus that he gets mail from Pennsylvania. I am retired and currently fighting with my insurance company about certain claims, so my assessment of my money situation changes regularly. No, I am not about to die. Just fighting with Blue Cross.
For the last two years. Sigh!
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Love the new features. I think seeing the cost of the book is a great idea. I like knowing whether I should go ahead and buy the book from Amazon or wait (possibly for months or longer) to mooch a copy. I would also love to see an estimate on when a book might be offered. This would help me decide whether or not to go ahead and buy the book or wait to mooch it. Added:
I swap books on another site that has recently started selling new/remainder books. It hasn't diminished swapping there at all. If anything, many popular books are being posted more often and more quickly as people buy them at a discount, read them, and reswap them. I see the same thing happening here. Showing people how cheap some books from their wishlist are may prompt them to go ahead and buy, read, and re-post them here. Especially people who don't have a lot of money to buy a new book right out of the bookstore.
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John, has Amazon required you to advertise for them in order to use their listings? This would be sad, but not surprising.
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| | John, has Amazon required you to advertise for them in order to use their listings? This would be sad, but not surprising. |
Yes. Their program used to be called "Amazon Web Service" and about a year ago they changed it to be named "Product Advertising API". They also changed the terms of use of their data and have threatened BM twice so far with canceling our use of their data. Unfortunately, the other free options are not good replacements for Amazon's book data, which is one reason to stay friendly with Amazon.
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I'm surprised nobody has realized the big *positive* aspect of encouraging people to buy used copies of books that are massively wishlisted: after the book is read, it'll probably given away through BM. In other words, if 50 people wishlist a book, and there are very few copies being given away, then it's a great thing if BM users buy cheap copies of the book, read it, and then give it away on BM. -john
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| | I just added a book on my wishlist and it shows me the prices for Amazon Canada, even though I am in the US. I wonder why? |
The current price-lookup checks the price of the book on the Amazon store that had book data. In your case, the book must have been originally added from amazon.ca. I'll be changing this, and looking up prices on your local Amazon store, so that if the book is available (for example) at Amazon.fr and you're in France, you'll see the Euro price. I'm working on this feature now, hopefully for release later this week. Afterward, I'll be working on the "meet & mooch" feature. -john
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I have a technical problem, been trying to get it sorted since March. Would you or a tech support person please email me at tudorpot at gmail dot com. thanks, Tudorpot
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One of the points about trading on BM is that I don't mind receiving a second-hand copy of a book (why else would I be here?), and for a book I'm going to read and discard, or one that I want as reference but am probably not going to refer to too often, a second-hand book is fine. After all, I'm the chances of finding a pristine out of print book are very slight!
I originally decided "no" to this new "Amazon price" feature. Having thought a bit more, I've now decided "why not". However, the displayed price is slightly misleading:
(a) the book may not be available for shipment to your country
(b) adding postage from another country can sometimes make the secondhand price more expensive than the new import from your local Amazon.
This morning I added more books to my wishlist, then went back and decided to order some of those from Amazon, and as usual compare the options between ordering from Amazon UK and Amazon France.
Warning: the BM-displayed price for the book on Amazon may not actually even be available in your country. I finally ended up ordering from Amazon France, even though the price was much higher, simply because some of the second-hand sellers in the UK won't ship to France. In some cases, a new import from Amazon is cheaper than secondhand from elsewhere.
Once you've been through this exercise, you realise how generous BM people are when they'll ship to another country.
The bottom line for me is that the displayed price is a guideline, but not an indication of how much you'll actually pay. If this is going to work, I'd like to see:
(i) a link from the secondhand price that enables me to choose which Amazon country site it goes to
(ii) the same secondhand price link optionally displayed when I trawl through my wishlist deciding whether to buy or wait. Perhaps if I saw this from my wishlist, I might just buy more often, which would reduce my wishlist, but may not necessarily put more books into circulation on BM, as the books I'm likely to buy are not necessarily those I'm going to want to part with quickly.
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WHY NOT AMAZON? Amazon.com Inc have been critized for: - Employing anti union consultancy firm
According to Unite the Union, Amazon continues to this day to see trade union representation as illegitimate. - Poor working conditions (ie. no sick leave allowed, even if doctor-prescribed; compulsory 10½hour overnight shift at the end of a five-day week, which means they have to work every day of the week; set quotas for the number of items to be picked or packed in an hour that even a manager described as “ridiculous” etc.) - Amazon squeeze publishers and writers through their monopoly
- Environmental reporting practically nonexistent.
- Criticised for poor carbon reporting (although you won't mind this but it is strongly related to pollution)
- Criticised for slow progress on improving precious metal supply chain (which means more pollution, slavery etc.).
- Sale of non FSC-approved paper products
- Sale of beauty products tested on animals
- Sale of leather products & goods. They sell leather (some of which comes from animals who have been skinned alive).
- Sale of rape and sexual violence simulation games
- Sale of uncertified diamonds (ie. more pollution and slavery)
- Supply chain policy practically inexistent
- Sale of 'tour guide for paedophiles'
- Member of USCIB lobby group Hope BM will go back to its original path...one day, maybe. Thanks!
Gio
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Amen! AND they swallow the competition ruthlessly-even tiny mom and pop booksellers se,ling books to not be a burden to society--do NOT patronize Amazon!! A total momopoly is their goal. v.
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As one who sends internationally but receives dozens of requests for international mooches from members unwilling to themselves send internationally, I do think that members ought not to be able to request international mooches unless they are themselves willing to send outside their own country. And by this I mean a proven track record of actually sending internationally, not doing what some do which is to have the "ask" option but then decline anything which is outside their home country, thus giving the appearance of sending internationally without ever having to actually send anything overseas. I appreciate that Americans in particular have been hugely inconvenienced by the removal of the surfacemail/ground/seamail option by USPS, but it would be appreciated if Americans requesting international mooches would themselves appreciate that the cost of sending mail to the States from the UK is actually more expensive than the other way around. I have lost count of the number of mooch requests which the users have abandoned once they found out that I won't send the heavy book they wanted by airmail, and they aren't prepared to wait. This morning I have had yet another international mooch declined by a giver in the USA and I am inclined to wonder how much the recent changes have contributed to this. I rarely decline international mooches, but I notice that others are not quite so generous. In summary: I have no objection to people preferring to mooch within their own country, but please don't expect me to send a book internationally if you will only send domestically to others. When requesting heavy books, please don't get ticked off if I won't send it airmail. I am prepared to wait months for books I really want. If you really need that book for your class project next week, then borrow it from the library, don't expect me to subsidise you. When you offer an international option, please be clear about the countries you will send to.
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